Yesterday, one of my coworkers was asked to make a sign that directed people outside for our Open House. He drew it on paper and was happily going to hang it on the wall for our event. Before this could happen though, I suggested that we try a different approach. I suggested a PowerPoint and using a large screen television that we have, connecting it with an HDMI cable to a laptop, and having this slide show direct people instead. My reasoning: it would look great and go with our agency's focus on using technology to solve problems.
My boss asked me, "How long would it take to set that up?"
I replied, "I can do it in ten minutes."
It actually took me around twenty to get everything set up, however I was happy with the result.
Well a little while later, I saw former co-worker on the floor in the hallway modifying my PowerPoint presentation. He basically said it wasn't satisfactory and felt the need to change it without even asking me if that would be okay.
I know this isn't a big deal, but this is the same guy that a little while before would have been happy to tape a scribbled piece of paper on the wall directing people outside. So yeah, he felt the need to "edit" my work. I have to say, I was a little miffed.
Conclusion: I don't like people telling me my work is unsatisfactory or "this could be improved" unless I'm soliciting for an opinion. Maybe I'm a tad bit arrogant? I don't know, but my feelings on this made me acutely aware that I may have some issues with insecurity.
Here is my point: I think that I've come to the conclusion that I will never be secure in myself as a person or as a writer. With regard to this last part, i.e., my writing, I thought I'd grown relatively secure based off of my reaction to reviews. One stars no longer made me feel like I was some species of sub-human wasting my time at a typewriter pounding away at keys to tell a story that no one wanted to read in the first place. But I think that I was just lying to myself. What changed my mind you might ask? Joining a writer's group here in Utah.
We meet once a month on the second Thursday. My friend, Charlotte Louise Dolan (she writes Regency romance and is a well-respected author in the genre) hosts the group at her home. I discovered that when it came for me to read from something I wrote, that it raised my blood pressure, made me hot under the collar, and made every error leap off the page. It's like I was suddenly made aware of how abominably long a single page of prose happens to be. The sentences appeared to stretch on forever. I remember thinking "how could one person write this much?" and then realized...oh yeah...it was easy.
If that's not a sign of insecurity, I don't know what is.
I don't know if a writer's group is for me, but I think I'm going to limit my exposure to reading stuff that I've written and putting it up for critique to about two pages per month. Everyone in the group is going to have an opinion, and I'm not sure if I like having all of those opinions resonating in my head. It's difficult for me to find my own voice again after hearing from other people how they think the story should go or how a character should act or whether an info dump needs to be cut, disseminated, or eliminated entirely. I hate info dumps too. About the only thing I know when I'm called out on my info dumps is that I need to do something about them. I guess my head is filled with big ideas, and I need to work on it or risk the dreaded "eye glaze."
Have any of you participated in writer groups? What do you do in order to get the most out of them without exposing too much of yourself to be cut open by sharp pens and eviscerating opinions? Or do you happily embrace flaws that people seem so ready to point out in something you've created?
As for me, I've said it once and I'll say it again. I don't particularly like people telling me my work is unsatisfactory and that's just the truth. But it seems to happen all the time. The fact that I've not gone postal may be all the validation that I need to realize I've the chops to be a real writer. I guess the proof will emerge in the years to come.
*****
The Insecure Writers Support Group is a monthly blog fest started by Amazon best selling science-fiction author Alex J. Cavanaugh.
Michael... don't give up on the writer's group, please!!!
ReplyDeleteOf course, this is just my opinion - but I *love* them and seeing as you are still fairly new, you should give it some more time. Seriously!
Perhaps, the rules for critiquing could be changed... readers should only crit on what they hear/read and not need/want an info dump.
Anyway, you're a bloody brilliant writer, so stick with this new challenge, old bean! You can do it :)
Michael... don't give up on the writer's group, please!!!
ReplyDeleteOf course, this is just my opinion - but I *love* them and seeing as you are still fairly new, you should give it some more time. Seriously!
Perhaps, the rules for critiquing could be changed... readers should only crit on what they hear/read and not need/want an info dump.
Anyway, you're a bloody brilliant writer, so stick with this new challenge, old bean! You can do it :)
I've never belonged to a writer's group and not sure how I'd feel about a whole room full of people listening to me read - and telling me what was wrong. That's what I have critique partners for - and you haven't lived if you've not had Rusty and Cassie comment on your work!
ReplyDeleteYou're a perfectionist, like me, and someone saying something is wrong is annoying because that means it's not perfect. But it's art, it's subjective, and can't be perfect. But it can be really good - and that you write really good is what you need to focus on and believe in!
And the dude changing your sign was wrong.
And yes it was cool to see Nick Fury last night. (Sorry, caught the other post...)
You also have to remember that sometimes it's the way it's read, or perhaps that it's being read aloud at all, that will change the perception of the writing.
ReplyDeleteAs far as unsolicited criticism goes, that's all a part of the territory. People judge everything else all day. They're bound to judge what you're doing, no matter if it's your writing or something else. If people were like excitable dogs and just accepted everything, we'd have a huge mess on our hands. The only thing you can hope for is that even the douchebags will give you something to work with in their responses. The hardest thing is to figure out why they didn't like it and how much it matters to you.
A PowerPoint presentation seems a bit over the top. Anyway, that's why I can't deal with bad reviews of my books. That and the bad reviews are usually so f-ing stupid.
ReplyDeleteI don't do writers groups. I don't care what other writers think about my work. I even have a pen name for publishing books that I've only spellchecked and proofed once. I'm THAT blasé about the writing world. I just tell great stories. Fact.
ReplyDeleteI'm a member of a few writers groups. One is a critique group with the writers of Readerlicious. I'm also taking a class where any person in the class of over 30 students can take a crack at critiquing your work. It's always difficult. Always. Five people will give you five opinions. You just have to find the ones you trust.
ReplyDeleteThe dude changing your thing was probably just being pissed because you upstaged him. I mean, not that he was right in what he did because messing with something that belongs to someone else with asking is never okay, it's kind of the same thing. You told him his paper sign wasn't satisfactory (whether it was or not not being the issue (but I think your idea of the power point to highlight your tech was a GOOD idea)), so he did the same thing back to you.
ReplyDeleteWhich is what happens with a lot of writers: tit for tat bad reviews and such.
As for being insecure about what you've written, the only thing I've found that really helps with that is to make sure you have something that -you- are happy with. If it's what you like, it makes it matter much less what other people think about it.
The way I deal with criticism of my writing is to sort of note it, let it simmer and then come back to it.
ReplyDeleteAt that point I think about what actually has the potential to improve my work and what is just based on individual preference. It's never pleasant, but I've been pleased with the way sharing my work with others has made it better.
Well, i would have been effing pissed if that had been my powerpoint, and i don't think it has anything to do with insecurity and everything to do with that person bein an ass.
ReplyDeleteBut yeah, i've been in a writing group for over ten years. I also take classes and participate in critiques with strangers. Sometimes my defensive hackles go up, but also, i think constantly putting myself in those situations makes me grow and makes it easier to deal with those situations in the future, you know? Kinda like a vaccine, you have to expose yourself to a little bit of the disease in order to build immunities to it.
When I started out as an illustrator I was very thin-skinned and couldn't handle criticism very well. After a few years when I'd created hundreds of illustrations it didn't hurt so bad if one or two were rejected or criticized. As a writer it bothers me that I'm constantly re-editing and reworking things and I never seem to be satisfied. But all in all I like my writing and I thing that's the most important thing of all. I have belonged to several writing groups over the years but, for the most part, they didn't work out.
ReplyDeleteI belong to two writers group in my area, and I've read a few things aloud. It makes my blood pressure go through the roof.
ReplyDeleteAnd I can't say I happily embrace the flaws, but I'll take all criticism under consideration. Doesn't mean I'll change anything, but I'll think about it.
I also agree with Mark—you're a brilliant writer.
Writing groups aren't for everyone. I've been to five and I settled for one, a group that I really clicked with, who offer suggestions that are helpful to the STORY rather than how it's being told. We've gotten very good at pointing at each other's plot holes and offer suggestions to fill them.
ReplyDeleteAnd I'd be more miffed if someone was touching my computer without my permission, let alone messing with my PowerPoint (mine!). :)
Yeah, I don't do well with live feedback. Give it to me in writing so I can think about it as I read, and I'm totally cool. But verbally, to my face? *shudders* I've been blessed with one of those really expressive faces. No need for mind readers here. SO complicate feedback on a book with trying to reign in all your reactions and manage both while trying to process what's being said.
ReplyDeleteI'll stick to written critiques. Thanks.
I think it takes practice to learn what to accept and reject from critique groups. I belong a few writers' groups and one critique group. Some critiquers are better at it than others. Some and I just smile and think, 'no way' are you right.
ReplyDeleteNever been in a writer's group but I think you should take it a day at a time. If it seems too much maybe you can invite a friend to help ease the tension.
ReplyDeleteI know all about people like that. Can't do squat, but like to add to what's already done.
ReplyDeleteI've found that some of us writers don't know how to be tactful with our criticism. Dunno why that is, but I've learned to accept that some folks don't know how to be anything else but brutal.
Dust yourself off and keep moving. There's nothing else to do. You know you're a good writer and even if you have doubts, there will always be people in your life who help validate your efforts.
I hear ya, Michael! I don't want to belong to a writers group. I think David King's answer up there said it best. You have to "shop around" to find a group you click with. I don't want to bother with the process. Editors for anthologies have given me plenty of experience about that. Some are great, make suggestions to tighten the story. Others want to rewrite it in their voice. That's not good but it's human nature. I think many people either don't understand how to give constructive critism or they belong to the group of negative people who like to cut you down like it's their job or something. Go with your gut feelings every time. You won't steer yourself wrong.
ReplyDeleteRiver/Laura
Seasoned With Words
I belong to a local critique group and it took me a little while to gain even a bit of a sense of ease with it. Yet I've learned so much from them. I don't like being centered out, and yes, I don't like being told my work is unsatisfactory either. I do know there's always room to improve, and sometimes I can't see how. That's where the group comes in.
ReplyDeleteI belong to a local crit group and a writers group. Feedback in person is a different level. It took us quite awhile to gel as a group, but I value them and their help.
ReplyDeleteOutside the group and my crit partners, I don't care for critique. I'm with you there.
I'm the opposite - I LOVE negative feedback. I know my work is not perfect, so I'm craving all that input so I can weigh it all up and find the answers to the flaws in my writing. But I know a lot of writers are sensitive about their weaknesses in their writing, so I always try to point out the potential when critiquing.
ReplyDeleteI've been part of a pretty good online writers group for over a year now (although I've been really inactive for the past 4 months). The main reason I think they are pretty good is that they will tell me when something doesn't work for them and why. They point out 'info dumps' and my big weakness - long stretches of back story (I guess really the same thing as info dumps), BUT they don't make corrections or tell me how the story should go or what my characters should say. Good thing - because I would go postal.
ReplyDeleteIn the beginning, I was asked what did I want in my critiques and I told them. They have really been good in adhering to my request, as I have tried to meet the needs of other writers in my critiques. Isn't that how it should be?
I do ask for help with punctuation, because I notoriously deficient in this area (I still don't really know where the commas go.). But other than that, they are not trying to 'FIX' everything in my writing, only give me helpful advice.
I know what you mean. Nothing quite like having a teenager "whisper", "I hate her. She's an awful teacher." And that happens every day.
ReplyDeleteI think the guy who had to "modify" your PowerPoint is very, very insecure. He had to put his stamp on it. Make it his in some way. Don't think about that as an attack on you. Think of it as his insecurity rearing its head.
Critique is hard. Of course, it's harder when it feels like people are attacking you rather than trying to help you. Some are trying to help you make the work better. Some are in it for their own egos. The trick (not that I know how to do this myself) is to take yourself out of the discussion and make it about the work.
I've blathered on long enough...
I've learned a lot about writing from my writing groups. I believe they've made my writing better. We know what we mean by what we write, but often we don't really write what we mean. I've written some pretty ridiculous and downright embarrassing things that my groups spotted, thank goodness. Just keep an open mind and accept what others say whenever you believe they are correct, and forget about what you disagree with.
ReplyDeleteIt does sound like your coworker has some issues. It's a bit rude to fiddle with someone else's project. At the library we all have little displays or signs we make and sometimes you might be able to improve it- that doesn't mean you help yourself without asking.
ReplyDeleteThe group? It would be tough to be critiqued in that way but if you can take the real critiquing that is valuable and throw away the nit picky stuff that is just their own preference then you may get some valuable stuff out of it.
I've been curious about joining a group, but I do think the members of the group have to work well together. I did take a novel writing class a few years ago, and had a few pages critiqued by everyone in the class. I found most of the people had pretty terrible ideas and basically had no idea what they were talking about. I wouldn't do another class, but a small group could be helpful.
ReplyDeleteOh, I know how you feel! I recently had something similar happen to me non-writing-related, and I almost lost it, I was so offended. Happily, I gained control of myself and curbed my pride. But I understand.
ReplyDeleteAs for writer's groups, I don't think they are for me. The problem for me is that I am always at such a different stage than everyone else, and I don't mean "better or worse", I just mean different. They often require new writing to share, and sometimes I'm simply in editing mode for two months and not producing anything new and really can't get into helping anyone with their work, either, if the timing is off for me, so I feel like I'm wasting everyone's time. I've also found that the basic concept of a writer's group makes me feel pressured to conform to some kind of schedule I didn't create. And even if I did create it, I'd feel pressured because I'd feel like I couldn't change it because I've already set it up for others.
Anyway, I've never had luck with writer's groups, so I no longer belong to any. I do, however, have many friends who LOVE their groups, and can't really work well without them. So I hope you find the right place that works for you! And helps you feel more secure than insecure. Otherwise, what's the point? :)
Of course you don't like hearing anyone say that your work (any kind of work) is unsatisfactory. No one does! But I'd separate the coworker from your writer's group in this instance. The coworker was clearly unhappy that you turned out something professional while he would have settled for a scribbled page, so he felt the compulsion to take you down a peg. He was just being an insecure dickhead and not worth getting upset over.
ReplyDeleteI myself don't belong to a writer's group, but like you I'm insecure about my own writing, and if I ever did have to read anything of mine aloud under those conditions, I'd have the heart palpitations and sweaty armpits too. The way I work and write, a writer's group doesn't seem a good fit for me. On the other hand, I go out of my way to get readers and feedback while I'm in the editing stages. With only a couple of exceptions (two hostile narcissists who ripped anything I wrote), the opinions and comments people have given me have been invaluable. Of course what all we writers want to hear isn't any criticism at all but only something like OH MY GOD YOUR BOOK IS BRILLIANT DON'T CHANGE A WORD IT SHOULD WIN THE PULITZER!
Okay, so now I'm slipping over into my personal fantasy land...
The point is, Michael, you are an excellent writer and a natural storyteller (and that's a gift you have to be born with) and a really good person. So keep writing please.
I loved being a part of a writers/critique group. But I went into every session (after I got used to it, that is) with the thinking that if you ask me my opinion (and why else would you read it to me) then I am entitled to my opinion, no matter how wrongheaded you may think it is. I hope I'm sensitive to the author in my feedback, but still, if they only wanted someone to say it is great, then they don't need the crit group to pump their ego! And they don't have to use my feedback either.
ReplyDeleteAnd when it is my turn to be critiqued, I flip that shoe around; I asked for your opinion, you're entitled to it and I will listen graciously because I know you have my writing/publishing interests at heart. A lot of times a critiquer is pointing out an obvious flaw that I would notice if my ego didn't get in the way.
Hang in the Mike; I hope the sessions get easier for you.
......dhole
I think the co-worker's edit was less to do with improving your work as much as it was his own insecurity. His effort was overshadowed and shown up by yours so he may have needed to have some input to make himself feel better about being pushed out of the way by you. I'm not saying you did that, but he may have seen it like that.
ReplyDeleteHe did a petty thing but I imagine it was fueled by his own insecurities.
mood
Moody Writing
I know that I have more than a touch of ego/arrogance in me, but I believe that chess has kept me grounded for the most part. Chess is such a humbling game. No matter how good I get at it, I will always encounter someone who can blow me off the board without breaking a sweat. So while I tend to feel that my work is always at least very good, I also always believe it could be better, so I listen to people when they are willing to comment on it. Often I discard what they say, but quite often they make valid points and I am able to improve what was already a good product.
ReplyDeleteI have never belonged to a writers group but that is not surprising since I am living in a country that speaks and writes another language. I would like to have the chance though to sit around with other like minded people and discuss writing. In the end though it is what you think that matters.
ReplyDeleteI don't belong to a writer's group. I'd like to try one, though. I don't think there are many people on this planet who DO like to hear a critique of their work, no matter what it is. I don't mind the low star rating/reviews. At first, it does hit like a hard blow to the gut, but then I have to stop and look at what they're trying to tell me. All the advice I've been given has made me a better writer, but in the end, it's my voice I want to be heard, not twenty dozen others who have influenced me.
ReplyDeleteI have done a group thing. My voice gets shaky, my skin blotches out, and I can't breathe. But when I had to read for 15 minutes in a recent grad school class, it wasn't as bad - I think it was because I had a grade on the line. And I practiced a lot.
ReplyDeleteNobody likes criticism. It's human nature not to. If someone tells you they're okay with it, it's a lie...lol.
ReplyDeleteI used go on Critique Circle, but I'm to a point where I just have a few good beta readers who I met there.
Michael,
ReplyDeleteRemember writing is SUBJECTIVE... most people will have some opinion or another. Try to separate yourself PERSONALLY from your work. And FILTER the comments. Take what works for you, and CUT the rest.
With my first novel, I was like you ... I only wanted to hear it was good writing, when I found out later it was RIDDLED with flaws.. For TWO years and fifteen critters later, I realized how much I've learned. DId I agree with them all .... HELL NO! I was furious in the beginning. But I took a step back. And realized this was all new to me. I wanted to LEARN....
THAT is the bottom line. We all need to be open to learn and grow. Limiting your time with the group may be the answer, but don't recluse. I wish I had a writer's group here.
But I do have on writer friend and we chat often...
Wow, insecure or not, I think your co-worker was being very rude. He should at least have asked. Obviously he's more of the "take someone else's idea and run with it" and not the "idea maker". You know what I mean? I'm sure there's a name for them, but whatever.
ReplyDeleteAs for writing groups. I LOVE mine. However, I've really had to change my way of thinking. Remember how I used to try and change things in my writing in an effort to make everyone happy? Getting critiqued on a weekly basis by 2-5 other writers has finally cured me of that. They all have very different opinions. Getting them all at once actually helped me to see that I could pick and choose the comments and make changes to the story that fit MY vision. So, it was/is a good thing for me.
Plus, meeting at a frozen yogurt shop really helps. :)