I have a friend that's pretty disappointed in DC's "Legends of Tomorrow" that is part of the CW's Thursday night lineup. It's a show that is following Disney/Marvel's formula of introducing characters and then having them come together in one big superhero mashup. We've got Sara Lance from Arrow, reprising her role as a former assassin. We've got Captain Cold and Heat Wave from the Flash, Atom (DC's version of "Ant Man") from the Arrow, and Firestorm from the Flash. My friend says that the writing is derivative and lazy and that the whole thing just offends him. But he also has admitted that he may be suffering from a lack of Vitamin D, working a midnight job and living in Portland where the sun doesn't shine very often. Oh and he's got a PhD in science-fiction fantasy geek, which merely means he's read, seen, laughed, consumed, reviewed, and given serious thought to every single trope of science fiction and fantasy out there. A writer has got to put in OVERTIME for him to be impressed. And that's a problem. I'll tell you why in a moment, but first back to my "Legends of Tomorrow" explanation.
I happen to love the show, but maybe that's because I don't take issue with cliche's anymore. Part of my transformation on how I feel about the subject of cliche came to me as an epiphany: something isn't cliche if the audience doesn't know its cliche. I know on the surface that just sounds like pointing out the obvious. But it's a bit more complicated than that and goes back to my feelings on writing in that you (as a writer) need to know who you are writing for. You need to really identify your audience.
For example, if you are wanting to be a mainstream fantasy writer then you probably should know that dragons are cliche monsters and that fanciful and strange magic systems that no one has ever heard of are important. Why? Because your audience is made up of people who have consumed every Brandon Sanderson, George R.R. Martin, Brent Weeks, and etc. book that's out there (ravenously). Just like in academia, there are geek experts (think "Geek PhD") that have been there/done that on just about every kind of fantasy and are just ready to say the following to your idea: predictable, boring, cliche, saw that coming a mile away, plot's been done a million times, and this is just a rehash of blah blah blah. That's a tough audience to entertain.
Anyway, my point is that "Legends of Tomorrow","Arrow","the Flash", and even "Supergirl" are not shows that are meant to appeal to the PhD's of Geekdom. Sure, some of the audience is inevitably captured, but I think the CW is using sex appeal (because all of its young actors are gorgeous) to rightfully draw in a different audience that hasn't ever heard of these characters. And because of that, these shows are doing really well. In other words, men and women are drawn to these shows because they see some eye candy and are staying because the cliche's grab them. Now I know that sounds weird, but think about what a cliche is. A cliche is something that is basically a good idea and because of that, everybody else got in on it and pounded it into the ground. It's the bread and butter of America. Oh you came up with a phone that allows you to install apps that do other things? Well that's a great idea and I'm going to steal it. Another example: wineries. They started making money a few decades ago and bam...there were suddenly thousands of wineries and because the competition was so vast, no one made any money and wineries started going bankrupt.
So when I see what's going on with the CW, and how I think they are capturing the attention of a whole new audience by hooking them with sex appeal and making them stay with cliche ideas that actually aren't cliche because this audience has never heard of them...it seems kind of brilliant. And I think it's something that all new writers should thing about. Create a hook with your writing. Draw a fresh audience into a genre you enjoy that's packed with experts just waiting to call you on every cliche you could ever come up with, and ignore the experts to cater to the new audience. In my own writing, I've been very satisfied with the results. Basically I've been writing gay fiction, and suddenly I'm finding that I don't have to work very hard on my science fiction and fantasy ideas because to the particular audience I've been writing all the ideas are relatively new. As an example, I've been able to write a fantasy that's pretty much character driven without giving a second thought to magic systems, and I've been getting fan mail about it. I want to use a dragon? The audience I write for says, "OMG I've never seen that," and it's really kind of cool.
Anyway, I just thought I'd share that with all of you because I've thought about it quite a bit this weekend. A cliche is ONLY a cliche if you know it's a cliche. So for me, my ideal audience is to write science fiction and fantasy for people who normally don't read science fiction or fantasy and then discover that they like it. I know that sounds hard, but I think what's harder (for most of us) is writing for an audience that has expert level knowledge of a genre and is hungry for something new. In other words, I'm saying it's harder for most of us to reinvent the wheel. So rather than try, let's use the same wheel (which we all know works) and trudge down a different path.
In conclusion, I'm saying it's not the cliche ideas that are necessarily bad. It's that you would dare to use them in front of an audience that knows better that's bad. Identify your audience first. If you truly want to try and impress an audience of experts with something that even they haven't seen...well that's on you and good luck.
That is all. :)
I happen to love the show, but maybe that's because I don't take issue with cliche's anymore. Part of my transformation on how I feel about the subject of cliche came to me as an epiphany: something isn't cliche if the audience doesn't know its cliche. I know on the surface that just sounds like pointing out the obvious. But it's a bit more complicated than that and goes back to my feelings on writing in that you (as a writer) need to know who you are writing for. You need to really identify your audience.
For example, if you are wanting to be a mainstream fantasy writer then you probably should know that dragons are cliche monsters and that fanciful and strange magic systems that no one has ever heard of are important. Why? Because your audience is made up of people who have consumed every Brandon Sanderson, George R.R. Martin, Brent Weeks, and etc. book that's out there (ravenously). Just like in academia, there are geek experts (think "Geek PhD") that have been there/done that on just about every kind of fantasy and are just ready to say the following to your idea: predictable, boring, cliche, saw that coming a mile away, plot's been done a million times, and this is just a rehash of blah blah blah. That's a tough audience to entertain.
Anyway, my point is that "Legends of Tomorrow","Arrow","the Flash", and even "Supergirl" are not shows that are meant to appeal to the PhD's of Geekdom. Sure, some of the audience is inevitably captured, but I think the CW is using sex appeal (because all of its young actors are gorgeous) to rightfully draw in a different audience that hasn't ever heard of these characters. And because of that, these shows are doing really well. In other words, men and women are drawn to these shows because they see some eye candy and are staying because the cliche's grab them. Now I know that sounds weird, but think about what a cliche is. A cliche is something that is basically a good idea and because of that, everybody else got in on it and pounded it into the ground. It's the bread and butter of America. Oh you came up with a phone that allows you to install apps that do other things? Well that's a great idea and I'm going to steal it. Another example: wineries. They started making money a few decades ago and bam...there were suddenly thousands of wineries and because the competition was so vast, no one made any money and wineries started going bankrupt.
So when I see what's going on with the CW, and how I think they are capturing the attention of a whole new audience by hooking them with sex appeal and making them stay with cliche ideas that actually aren't cliche because this audience has never heard of them...it seems kind of brilliant. And I think it's something that all new writers should thing about. Create a hook with your writing. Draw a fresh audience into a genre you enjoy that's packed with experts just waiting to call you on every cliche you could ever come up with, and ignore the experts to cater to the new audience. In my own writing, I've been very satisfied with the results. Basically I've been writing gay fiction, and suddenly I'm finding that I don't have to work very hard on my science fiction and fantasy ideas because to the particular audience I've been writing all the ideas are relatively new. As an example, I've been able to write a fantasy that's pretty much character driven without giving a second thought to magic systems, and I've been getting fan mail about it. I want to use a dragon? The audience I write for says, "OMG I've never seen that," and it's really kind of cool.
Anyway, I just thought I'd share that with all of you because I've thought about it quite a bit this weekend. A cliche is ONLY a cliche if you know it's a cliche. So for me, my ideal audience is to write science fiction and fantasy for people who normally don't read science fiction or fantasy and then discover that they like it. I know that sounds hard, but I think what's harder (for most of us) is writing for an audience that has expert level knowledge of a genre and is hungry for something new. In other words, I'm saying it's harder for most of us to reinvent the wheel. So rather than try, let's use the same wheel (which we all know works) and trudge down a different path.
In conclusion, I'm saying it's not the cliche ideas that are necessarily bad. It's that you would dare to use them in front of an audience that knows better that's bad. Identify your audience first. If you truly want to try and impress an audience of experts with something that even they haven't seen...well that's on you and good luck.
That is all. :)
I will go even further and say a well used cliche is not cliche but great story telling. I am someone who could care less about most eye candy. Abs rarely impress me and a find a blank personality with a handsome face just gross. No. Yet I love The Flash, Arrow and Lend of Tomorrow because despite using cliches the story telling is very on point. Sure I think LOT kind of depends a bit more on eye candy than the other two but the characters and story has me wanting more. Arrow to me is the pinnacle of television superhero shows and TV shows in general. I was taken in from the first season and each one raises the stakes and is not afraid to take risks with both main and secondary characters whether they pay off or fall flat. The Lazarus Pit was getting annoying...boom now it's put of commission. Sure there will be fans who are mad but others like me are glad the pit is dead. The Flash is another show with great writing and in some ways is superior to The Arrow which led it into being on the CW. Yet Arrow is still #1 for me because those characters and that writing team keep me addicted like nothing else. I live tweet with each episode as of last year and have gained a nice following with fellow tweeters following me just to catch my thoughts on the show. Not an easy task tweeting and following each week's plot but I'm willing to do it for Arrow.
ReplyDeleteAlso thanks for this post Mike. I had decided that my first novel would indeed be my Missing Girls Series novellas and to get that ready by June. I had been nervous since those waiting on my first book had been used to me mostly going on about fantasy and dystopia not contemporary verse. I even started reading Triangles by Ellen Hopkins for inspiration. But your post made me calm down and realize I can just write for the audience I have and if the poetry nuts find me then find. Hell I was a poetry nut too and my first paid job was writing poetry for Bookends Magazine in the local paper. So what do I have to worry about? Plus it is two years since I started making money ghostwriting and freelancing stories and drafts for customers on Fiverr. I had tried years before with little success but as of 2014 I can live off my earnings and write full time. A dream I had wanted to accomplish for so long. So thanks for that bit of inspiration Mike and a reminder that we don't need to reinvent the wheel. After all I did want to write unique stories but not die trying to please people. If that was my purpose my parents would have gotten the doctor/lecturer/teacher/depressed pill proper they preferred over me being a writer. No thanks, I want to write. :)
Thanks for the amazing comment, Sheena.
DeleteWhatever comment I'm going to leave is going to look really lame after reading Sheena-kay's.
ReplyDeleteTrue, if someone doesn't know the genre well, they won't know the cliches. Everything is new. We were all at that point once.
I think Legends of Tomorrow is great. (Especially as a big DC fan.) I've spent decade devouring fantasy and science fiction of all kinds, but unlike your friend, I'm not stressed or bored by cliches. They are comfortable. Not everything can be a hundred percent new and I'm fine with that.
Just give your friend that MST3K line - Then repeat to yourself it's just a show, I really should relax...
Yeah. I'm trying to get young people to work on their creative side, whether it's writing or beading, or painting or photography, whatever. And somewhere along the way, hopefully, a light bulb will turn on and they'll see that they have something to contribute. Personally, I reread a lot of books precisely cause they've written it well. Like listening to a good storyteller who knows how to keep his audience entertained. I try not to listen to the "naysayers" no matter who they are cause they don't always like what I like. My audience is numbered in the thousands, low thousands, and that's okay. I make a difference and that's good enough for me.
ReplyDeleteCongratulations on your success, Mildred. And thank you very much for commenting.
DeleteI haven't been impressed yet by Legends of Tomorrow. I'm sticking with it for now, though, because of my love for Arrow, and Barry Allen and Cisco.
ReplyDeleteWriting for a knowledgeable audience is certainly a challenge. When I write about ART I try and get people interested who might not otherwise be. I don't write for art scholars.
ReplyDeleteI'm on the fence about that show. Most people don't care about cliches. It's why you see the same plots used over and over again.
ReplyDeleteGeeks are usually out of touch with what is going to be popular to the general audiance, so no wonder it's popular.
ReplyDeleteAs a teacher once told me, having clowns on the wall of a kindergarten classroom may be cliche but the incoming five-year-olds have never seen them before, so they like them.
ReplyDeleteHaving said that, the only of DCs shows that is proving to be at all interesting to me is Gotham. The rest are horrible adaptations.
What don't you like about the others? I love the Flash. What would your vision of the Flash and the Arrow be like?
DeleteThe Arrow is Batman, even going so far as to take story lines from the Batman comics and applying them over onto Oliver.
DeleteThe Flash isn't Barry Allen; he's just called that. He's more Wally West. If they'd just gone with that, I'd probably be okay with it.
Constantine was just... horrible. Wrong atmosphere and everything. Explains why it got cancelled.
I hate the "My name is..." opening all of them use. It's dumb.
I haven't seen Supergirl or Legends, yet, but I also don't much like how the Atom is Iron Man.
I was watching a thing about the making of several of the shows and the creators stated bluntly, "Oh, yeah, we don't pay any attention to the source material. We just do with whatever what ever we want to do with it." I find that attitude... Well, if I was the creator, I'd be pissed. It's all rather Tim Burton about why he got Batman wrong: "I would never read a comic book." If you're going to ignore the source material, why bother with "basing" it on the source material?
That is a good point. Twilight did so phenomenally well because it drew in girls who liked romance and for them it came at them from a different angle.
ReplyDeleteSheena-Kay's comment had so much insight I feel humbled. I don't watch any of the CW shows you mention here, but I agree with you about cliches. Any writer knows how it's nearly impossible to tell a completely original story, especially if it's a genre one, so it's HOW the story is told, if the characters resonate with the reader, if all the elements come together and make a lasting impression.
ReplyDeleteMy problem with Legends of Tomorrow isn't cliches but that the implementation has felt clunky. I've come to loathe any time the hawks are on screen and the show would be better off without them but unfortunately the entire show is based on their ridiculous backstory.
ReplyDeleteActually I think the show would be tighter if they actually used more cliches and copied Firefly/Dr Who more directly. The biggest flaw is the show doesn't have heart and has given little reason for us to care about the characters. That can change as the actors and writers get more comfortable but I don't have a lot of hope based on what I've seen so far.
I love Legends too. For me, I don't care if it's a cliche if I'm enjoying it. Those who constantly pick apart and aim to be intellectual critical of a show about superheroes need a new hobby.
ReplyDeleteI see what you're saying. I don't have a problem with some of the formulas. In the end, very little is new under the sun. The blueprints for every kind of story arc are out there. And stories do have to follow certain rules, right? So it's important to make some element stand out. You've done that by creating gay fiction. I think what you mean is that your world building can follow certain well-worn tropes. But your actual story is your own.
ReplyDeleteAnd, really, if we were looking for universal acceptance for our writing, there'd be no point to writing.