George R.R. Martin is one of the most successful writers alive. And he's now filthy stinking rich because of that success. I think his behavior with regard to his fans is pretty atypical. Here are some words of "encouragement" for you from him:
No, I will not come to your convention, thanks for asking.
No, I will not read your manuscript/ galley proof/ book, but good luck with that.
No, I will not write a story for your anthology, I am a year behind writing stories for my own anthologies.
No, I will not write a preface/ introduction/ foreword for your book.
No, I will not do an interview.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
LOLOLOL
In my opinion, fame brings out a person's true colors.
So, how will you act if the day comes when you have money, an agent, a book deal, and fame? If you're in YA you could be super polite (super fake), never follow anyone on twitter (except other celebrities), never visit anyone's blogs, say things like "goodness me...I'm so busy..." and when someone wants to legitimately talk with you, you'll refer them to "Your Publicist."
Know any authors that fit this bill?
Here is the real mind-bender. Maybe arrogance is the whole point of fame.
Know any authors that fit this bill?
Here is the real mind-bender. Maybe arrogance is the whole point of fame.
Maybe the people that behaved this way were ALWAYS arrogant and couldn't stand being mediocre. It beat them up. They knew they had to HAVE FAME to have an excuse to be arrogant. Without the fame, being arrogant just made them look like jerks. But with it, people get a free pass.
If I had money I'd do like JD Salinger and just retreat to some secluded farm and never see anyone again. Let someone else do all the selling for me.
ReplyDeleteI see both sides of this. When you think of the hundreds of people asking him for things each day, I feel bad for him. I have some friends who are with small presses who already told new authors they don't have time to read their stuff. I tend to offer to read a page or first chapter. Yes, I can't read an entire book, but I can figure out their 'issues' and 'strengths' with that small sample. The other thing to be cautious of is that new writers tend to say things like, 'but she told me to do this.' Yikes! Anyway, I think we all grow and change as we continue down this path. I hope I'll always be open to others, but I understand how difficult it would be.
ReplyDeleteI hate to say this, but in my writing group, it seems as soon as someone gets published, they quit coming to the meetings. They say they're too busy. But hell! EVeryone is busy. Seems as if they used the group for support when they needed it, then to hell with the rest of us now. I promised myself I wouldn't do that. But when I do get published, it'll be interesting to see what I do.
ReplyDeleteGreat analysis. If arrogance comes with fame, I'm content with writing my stories and shelving them. Lol
ReplyDeleteI do think it's in the personality to begin with. I'd go out of my way to help anyone, I'd its in my power and I'm able to, but I'd I can't, I'd politely decline. I can't imagine being rude and arrogant, even WHEN my novels are on the best seller list.
I want to be uber-cool and awesome to fans like Neil Gaiman. And give heaps to charity like JK Rowling.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure at some point there comes a time when you literally can't respond to everyone, and you shouldn't have to, but you also don't have to be a dickhead about it.
You're making an interesting point. Kudos for having the balls to bring this up. I have to admit though, I find George R.R Martin's missive rather candid. He's just telling it like it is. He will keep working at what made him famous and beloved rather than live off his status for even a minute. I can appreciate that.
ReplyDeleteMany writers, as soon as they taste a little success, they try to hang to whoever also experienced it because they're "in the know". But it's often first time novelists. Rugged veterans know the benefits of acknowledging everybody and to be genuine. Guys like Donald Ray Pollock, James Sallis, Joe Lansdale and Tom Piccirilli thanked me personally for just talking about them.
But my prime example of well-lived success is Frank Bill. He released a short story collection called CRIMES IN SOUTHERN INDIANA last year. I think the guy is going to be big. Hemingway big. He has international distribution and all. Frank and I were talking before the release and we're still talking today. I know he's busy as hell with his writing, but he always have two minutes. They I hit my stride, I wish I have half of the class he has.
I'm pretty sure I'm too self-deprecating to ever become arrogant. Not saying that's a good thing, just how it is. If I ever got big-headed, I would hope someone would slap me down for it.
ReplyDeleteIt is possible that the true colors of human beings come out when they become famous. It is also true that famous people are really busy and they can be misconceived as arrogant if they do not watch out their tones and their words. However balancing fame and good fortune with humility is a thing of up upbringing and to a lot of extent of magnanimity. Oprah Winfry asked J.K. Rowling if she is satisfied with herself ( I guess achievements fame and money wise) JK Rowling humbly replied that she wasn't. She then asked back the same question, "Are you?" to which Oprah Winfry replied, "I am"
ReplyDelete@Munir
ReplyDeleteGreat comment.
I agree with the majority of the posts here, when an author finally gets an agent and gets published, life gets even busier than it was before (especially if you have a full time job, and a family, and a social life, and...need I go on?). That doesn't mean that they should stop being who they are. If that's arrogance, then it will be magnified ten-fold. But if they're genuinely good people, they just may be saying "no" because they can't say "yes". Doesn't mean they like having to say no all the time.
Good post.
Most writers I know are bloggers and they don't act that way, but, I can see how fame can make writers change. It's sad because the readers are the ones that made the writer famous.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure this is arrogance. If he did some of those things for a few people, everyone would be asking. Then he would come across as unfair to the others. But he should give back in some way because it's the fans who made him so rich in the first place. So yes, he should do something.
ReplyDeleteI really don't get why A Dance with Dragons is selling so well on Amazon with a 2.5 star average at at $15 for the Kindle version. Then hundreds of people saying they were disappointed. People are crazy.
I don't think anyone knows how they will act until they are in the situation. I'm that person who tries to be helpful, but what if I was losing my mind trying to help every person who asked? I do believe you should give back as much as you are able.
ReplyDeleteInteresting points by all.
ReplyDeleteIF I were ever rich and famous; FIRST, you probably would not be able to find me.
SECOND, I would be happy to talk to you and the other 138 people who follow me now, along with the handful of others who are also my friends, BUT the people who come along JUST because you're rich and famous have their own brand of arrogance to deal with, and NO I don't particularly want to talk to them.
hehehe - if your last paragraph is true, I certainly know a good handful of people who should become superfamous very soon :)
ReplyDeleteI don't really know anything about Martin, but he's probably swamped with requests like that, so it's probably just self-defense that he's taken that kind of stance. He does also sound kind of reclusive; maybe the attention makes him want to run away?
ReplyDeleteThis is true of other professions as well.
ReplyDeleteWhat about the basketball player who shot hoops on a back court as a kid but now won't sign autographs?
The Star who drives drunk then expects a pass when arrested?
Or a Singer that insists on twelve heated bath towels in her hotel room?
I live with the belief that all writers have a thread of arrogance in them. They have to in order to write. Or at least, to believe their writing is worth anyone else's time.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, I think there is a clear separation between being arrogant and being a snob. George Martin sounds like he's slipped from arrogance into snobbery...maybe.
The thing is, a lot of the things he's been asked to do, I wouldn't do now, and I don't think many people would...say someone emailed you and said, "I've read your blog and I really like it, would you read my manuscript."
I'd be flattered, but I would probably politely decline, I might offer to read the first chapter.
If I ever became famous, I would probably continue to read the blogs I read now, I'd probably pick up a few new ones too, I'd be friends with the people I am friends with now, but I'd probably pick up a few new friends too, just as I do now.
But being famous/well known/etc, doesn't increase the number of hours in a day, and I barely have enough of those as it is. I imagine George Martin has the same issue.
p.s. I have a friend who is a published author, he hasn't let it change him at all, but then again, he was quite arrogant before he was published. He also stopped going to our writers group, but that was for completely different reasons that had nothing to do with being published.
I don't like arrogant people so I stay the hell away from folks like that.
ReplyDeleteWhen it comes to fame I always remember the words of famous actor Ernest Borgnine: Be nice to the people you meet on your way up because they're the same people you meet on your way down.
ReplyDeleteI think I'll follow the Tim Tebow guide to fame. A little better choice, don't you think?
ReplyDeleteOn the one hand, I totally see your point. Reading that little "No, no, no" list was like a slap in the face, and I didn't ask him for anything! But just to speak to the other side of the coin, I think most authors who are that big don't do things in that least for the hordes of random strangers asking for them. So they just have a form reply, "no thank you" to each email, or maybe they just ignore the email and don't reply, or maybe they have a publicist/assistant who pre-sorts the mail and answers no for them. The result is the same... but of course it's not. The delivery does count for something, and this delivery leaves much to be desired.
ReplyDeleteRead through the comments first and most of what came to mind someone has already said. Munir had a good point about humility and several others mentioned the thousands of requests some famous people receive, so they can't say yes to everything.
ReplyDeleteLeigh is right - take the Tim Tebow approach. (Or take the Terrell Owens approach and see where that path leads.)
god i hope i don't get arrogant. But then i've never been famous so i don't know how it will change me. I can't see myself ever not appreciating any fans, though. Because fans are awesome!
ReplyDeleteI think George may legitimately be that busy, but I get what you're saying.
ReplyDeleteI know tons of writers who aren't nearly as famous as he is, but act like they are when they pretend to be so busy.
Give me a break. I have a family, a 50 hour a week day-job, and I blog every day, and write manuscripts that are 5 times longer than they need to be. These people can's possibly have any less time than me.
I would hope that I wouldn't turn into a tyrant.
ReplyDeleteIn my experience, some of these sorts of things are not in control of the author. I used to run a reading series in Chicago, and one time we brought in a pretty well-known poet who wanted to premier some poems from his forthcoming book. Well, he arrived and told us that he totally wanted to read as much poetry as we wanted him to. But his publisher absolutely forbade him to utter one bloody word. We tried to reason with him, but it wasn't his call.
For Martin, it might just be that an agent is in his ear about what he should and shouldn't do, and the amount of money he must charge for this or that. Maybe, maybe not. It's hard to judge fairly from afar.
This post had me thinking. I do feel busier than ever before, but at the same time, I don't want to rely on that as some lame excuse. I could give you a list, but again, that's an excuse. I'm always willing to help others, though I admit my reaching out has slowed down some. If someone emails me, I do what I can to help because I always appreciate those with initiative. So long as I don't have to sacrifice my writing time too much, I'll help whenever I can. I wouldn't get any writing in otherwise. I hope to write many books, so it's a balance I still have to figure out. :)
ReplyDeleteI think that fame requires a certain level of arrogance and ego to be able to pull it off - humility and fame come together in the rarest of cases. I think also that some writers feel that they have to keep a certain distance from their fanbase, which often backfires.
ReplyDeleteLOL Michael! I'll have my people contact your people when we're famous!
ReplyDeleteBut then there are the mega-stars that prove by the way they live and die that fame doesn't count for everything. Relationships matter.
ReplyDeleteI read all the comments and find what everyone said and what you wrote to be interesting. I would bet that he really is too busy. I don't have much of a life, but I'm finding it hard to keep up with reading all the blogs I want to read and writing one too.
ReplyDeleteThe funny thing about Martin is if he did go to a convention, he'd have his fans yelling at him to stop messing around and write the next book. :-) Poor George! He can't win!
ReplyDeleteMargaret Atwood has a nice page on her web site covering everything she has to say no to. At that level, I understand you get inundated.
If I had that level of popularity and cash, I don't know what I'd do, besides a lot of shopping, of course. :-)
I think a lot of writers (and others) post comments like that to discourage people from sending them stuff. I believe that Stephen King actually reads SOME things people send him, but don't quote me on that.
ReplyDeleteAs a superfamous guy already -- I can barely walk through my own living room without at least 50% of the people recognizing me and 75% of them blaming me for getting pizza on the rug -- I can say that I will definitely continue to support people's efforts to glom onto a small part of my fame. If you want me to read your book, manuscript, poem, car registration, ingredients on a hot dog package, or liner notes from that obscure 1973 jazz album you bought at a flea market, I'm going to do it.
As for going to your conventions, gladly!
As for the other stuff George R R said he wouldn't do, as well, I'll do those things, as well. Maybe I would think differently about my fans -- maybe I would feel free to treat them like completely irrelevant pieces of crap -- if I had catapulted to fame by essentially grittily rebooting J.R.R. Tolkien's stuff instead of coming up with something original, as some people did (I won't name names but it rhymes with "Morge Mar Mar Martin"), but that's just me.
In short: Many writers will not do those things. But Martin's just being a dick.
ALSO! I'm having a blogfest in which you can write stuff! Details here: http://www.troublewithroy.com.
I would do all that stuff but demand a tiara and throne. - j/k, really.
ReplyDeleteI remember my first college basketball game as a player. I was the star in a victory for the team. My coach came up to me afterwrads and told me the reporters wanted to talk to me. I looked at him and said, "Why?" I really had no idea what I had done that would warrant someone wishing to interview me.
ReplyDeleteI am still that same person
They say (and I have to go with a "they" as I wouldn't know) that fame just magnifies who you were to begin with.
ReplyDeleteI'm willing to cut Martin a break, as I'm sure he's innundated with requests. I guess the real question is, what kind of famous author do you want to be?
Hell yeah. If I became a billion dollar best seller I'd be like, see ya, losers! HAHAHA. Just kidding, but I do think success and money changes a person. I don't think any writer starts out being a rich asshole when they're poor. Power changes a person sometimes. Gladly, not everyone.
ReplyDeleteHis no list didn't bother me. I kind of admired it. I think it is hard for people to learn to say No and he clearly has it down. Maybe he has a good therapist.
ReplyDeleteI promise that when I get famous (laughing at that)I will still be nice and down to earth.
ReplyDeleteHey, I'd love to get together and do coffee. I don't drink coffee BUT I love the smell of it. Also, Starbucks has some way awesome hot chocolate and pastries. Just let me know you're schedule. I'm pretty open during the days, and some evenings. Once my kids get home from school life gets crazy.
Anyway, just let me know. It'll be fun.
There should never be a free pass for arrogance.
ReplyDeleteI can see time constraints as part of the fame. Even so nothing excuses a rude demeanor. How hard is it to give a few kind words. I'm sure all of us have benefited from the kindness of others. Why shouldn't we return that favor...
I truly believe arrogance comes before a fall. If you want to keep your fan base, you have to treat them with the same respect you would want for yourself. (Hugs)Indigo
I am firm believer that with fame comes HUGE responsibility and not to yourself or publisher BUT to the people who supported you along the way.
ReplyDeleteI also believe in giving back and I have NO time for arrogant people. I met MANY and I mean many famous people in my former career and believe me many were completely sweet and giving people.
IT's the arrogant ones that make the headlines. Humans are funny creatures and we all react differently in different situations. But to me arrogant people think they are better than others and to be point blank WE all use the "facility" in the same way. So they need to get OVER IT!
I hope and pray I never turn into one of those jerks. I hadn't in the past and I hope never to in the future.
Michael you always have a very direct and interesting post. Thanks for your passion.
Totally agree about fame revealing a person's true colours... it happens all the time with celebrities and the like... I guess it's easy to have it get to their heads when everyone keeps telling them how awesome they are...
ReplyDeleteI think there are arogant people on both sides of fame. We just notice the famous ones more. And he may just really be busy writing stuff and not want to bother with the rest.
ReplyDeleteA lot of famous authors are probably like that, they're just not vocal or blunt about it.
ReplyDeleteFamous writer who is not an asshole: Neal Gaiman. He is so visible to his fans, and even though he is busy, there are ways to keep up with him, he participates in a lot of Reading Awareness events, and such. I follow him on Facebook, and several times he has announced some chat room or other that he's hanging out in. So you don't have to be a dick just 'cause you're busy and famous.
ReplyDeleteIf I were a famous writer i'k love to think I'd be like Neil Gaiman about my fame. He's super cool. I think you can be famous and not be a d-bag. I emialed a very famous author once with a query about her book which I was posting a review for. She answered promptly and mow follows me on twitter. How hard was that. She hot a fan for life right there.
ReplyDeleteMaybe the reason they are famous is that they are arrogant and they will walk all over anyone who gets in their way. They will cheat lie, plagiarize... Hemingway always had a great deal of hutzpa and then fame/success made him even worse. "Who was that who helped get me published? Fitz who? Screw him I was always going to get where I am regardless of any help anyone gave me." Hemingway in a nutshell. And Martins? What balls! Behaves as though he were Tolkien or something. But as I understand it, Tolkien was not that arrogant.
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