I read an article on the science-fiction blog io9 about this autistic savant who spent 20 years creating a fictional city called Urville. Here are some pictures that he drew (go and see the rest at this link if you are interested in the full story). In a nutshell, he envisioned everything including its own fictional history and how it was impacted by events in humanity's real timeline.
I started to think of how many stories there must be to a place like this, and I wonder if this person will ever get around to writing fiction about it or about the lives of the people who populate it. I think that world-building can be taken to an extreme. I'm sure for the guy that made this city, it felt real to him. For me, world-building is the funnest part of fiction, and it's where I start with my stories. But there are definitely other approaches.
Brandon Sanderson seems to focus a lot of attention on unique magic systems for fantasy. For myself, I dislike unique magic systems. They seem to slap me in the face as the author is trying as hard as he can to be "clever", and I hate it when an author tries to be "clever." I think to myself that maybe they'd like it if everyone they met looked at them and said..."Oh you're such a clever writer...look at you being clever" and then just pinched their cheeks.
To use a writing analogy...I liken it to using some other word as opposed to "said". The word "said" is fine, don't get rid of it, I like it. But sometimes you get authors who have characters who are "retorting" and "cajoling" and "exclaiming" and "replying" and all that jazz. Just give me plain old "said". I take the same view with "magic". Just give me plain old sorcery with spell books and fireballs that form the backbone of the genre. Don't use a wyvern...just give me a damned dragon. Stop trying to be "different". J.K. Rowling just used wands and spell books. Look at how that worked out.
The fantasy and science-fiction that I have studied that makes an impact on me has taken the clever route on the world-building. Ringworld by Larry Niven is one example. The world in the Rose and the Prophet by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman is another. A third is David Eddings' Belgariad. And a fourth is George R.R. Martin's "A Song of Ice and Fire". All of them have amazing worlds. Sure, Eddings had a unique magic system but I liked his world more than the magic system and it really wasn't all that clever. It was just like psionics in Dungeons and Dragons.
And then there are those that say that development of character and romance is the most important. My only problem with this is that some people go overboard on character development to where the story is their reactions to what other people are saying and doing and it goes on for hundreds of pages with nothing happening.
When you set out to tell a fantasy story, is your first step to envision the character first? Or do you build the world first? or do you come up with a magic-system first? Or do you do something different from these three things that I haven't touched on in this post?
Brandon Sanderson seems to focus a lot of attention on unique magic systems for fantasy. For myself, I dislike unique magic systems. They seem to slap me in the face as the author is trying as hard as he can to be "clever", and I hate it when an author tries to be "clever." I think to myself that maybe they'd like it if everyone they met looked at them and said..."Oh you're such a clever writer...look at you being clever" and then just pinched their cheeks.
To use a writing analogy...I liken it to using some other word as opposed to "said". The word "said" is fine, don't get rid of it, I like it. But sometimes you get authors who have characters who are "retorting" and "cajoling" and "exclaiming" and "replying" and all that jazz. Just give me plain old "said". I take the same view with "magic". Just give me plain old sorcery with spell books and fireballs that form the backbone of the genre. Don't use a wyvern...just give me a damned dragon. Stop trying to be "different". J.K. Rowling just used wands and spell books. Look at how that worked out.
The fantasy and science-fiction that I have studied that makes an impact on me has taken the clever route on the world-building. Ringworld by Larry Niven is one example. The world in the Rose and the Prophet by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman is another. A third is David Eddings' Belgariad. And a fourth is George R.R. Martin's "A Song of Ice and Fire". All of them have amazing worlds. Sure, Eddings had a unique magic system but I liked his world more than the magic system and it really wasn't all that clever. It was just like psionics in Dungeons and Dragons.
And then there are those that say that development of character and romance is the most important. My only problem with this is that some people go overboard on character development to where the story is their reactions to what other people are saying and doing and it goes on for hundreds of pages with nothing happening.
When you set out to tell a fantasy story, is your first step to envision the character first? Or do you build the world first? or do you come up with a magic-system first? Or do you do something different from these three things that I haven't touched on in this post?
World building and culture building are top of my list, followed by sorting out the magic system (I like there to be rules and cause/consequence to magic) before I work out characters or plot.
ReplyDeleteMy stories usually start with a worldbuilding - I have ideas of worlds I want to visit, where there are rules and unique cultures, and then I build from there... part of that sometimes includes magic, but I tend to steer away from straight magic, and like to introduce different elements of this...
ReplyDeleteHm. I have to agree with you on this.
ReplyDeleteI especially like the bit about pinching the cheeks of "clever" writers.
I'd like to pinch the cheek of the one who cleverly invented vampires who sparkle and don't have fangs. (=
Give me a straight up blood sucker any day.
Actually--don't give me any kind at his point. I'm full.
I agree. Authors can go over-board explaining all the why's and how's and it murrs the actual story. It blinds readers. With fantasy, you're allowed a little mystery. A sorcerer can do wonderful and terrible things, but how does he do it? *Shrugs. He's a sorcerer. He just can.
ReplyDeleteI've built a world. I have a map; I know it's history; I know the sorcerers that have been wandering it for centuries; I know random characters from different cities; and I use all these to write different stories, be it adventure, horror, thriller, etc, all based in this same world.
I had a rough idea and let the story take me places at times. I drew a map of the most important locations and added the smaller ones if they came along in where my characters were going. I hated having to keep track of N,S,E,W, even if it wasn't often that it was necessary.
ReplyDeleteAs a reader I often skim over much of the "descriptions" of things. I want to get into the action. Hopefully I accomplished "KISS" in how I wrote things and what I wrote.
I don't know, Tolkien certainly did all right :). I enjoy world building but I think I may skimp on it too often itching to get into the characters skins.
ReplyDeleteMy first thought with a story is a premise usually... 'A guy is searching for something in the middle of a rainstorm. If he doesn't find it the world will end...' and I'll work from there to figure first, the character, then the plot.
ReplyDeleteI'm reading Sanderson's books right now. I'm not well versed enough in fantasy to say much about his magic system, but at least in his Mistborn books, they are supremely well done I think. I've been impressed that I have not seen any of his twists coming, but I still see how logically he has laid the groundwork for them early on. Everything about his magic makes sense too, there are limitations, there are rules. I like it. The magic system itself really is part of his story.
I tried writing a fantasy novel last year, but I put it aside because (among other things) my magic wasn't well thought out. My rules were nebulous and I think it was showing a bit. So I think you do have to be diligent crafting that sort of thing. I've been thinking about it more and more lately though, I think I'm going to get back to it very soon.
I had characters from my D&D days, and I had several story lines that initially didn't involve any specific characters. I blended them together, while also thinking about how I could write a gritty, realistic epic fantasy that would fulfil what I love about D&D and yet be completely different (and hopefully much better) than the official D&D novels that have been published.
ReplyDeleteas you know sf and epics are my fave genre, and I love when the writer or a director are able to bring a whole new world to us.
ReplyDeleteWhen it comes to reporting verbs, it's interesting that I've translated 30 books so far and read thousands and I've never noticed that some people have problem with various reporting verbs until some of the bloggers mentioned it. I like variety, so I like different verbs too.
My characters come to life first. I let them tell me what kind of world they live in.
ReplyDeleteAs soon as I write a fantasy story I'll let you know. Though really I don't know why I haven't done more fantasy. I read LOTR and all the Discworld books and the old Lloyd Alexander Prydain books are some of my favorites. Just never got into it for some reason.
ReplyDeleteI usually think of the character first and figure out what their problem is. Then I think about what type of world & society would give them the most amount of trauma. (Written out like that, this sounds kind of mean!)
ReplyDeleteI actually Brandon Sanderson's magic systems but that's also because as a reader, I'm bored by the same old, same old in fantasy. I like new takes on stuff but I agree that if you prefer your magic systems more numinous, his "toy" style magic system is going to be highly irritating.
My stories always start with a character..then I put them into situations and/or different worlds.
ReplyDeleteI go with character first since world building is nothing until the reader bonds with the MC.
ReplyDeleteRegarding magical realms, what do you think about Jim Butcher's Furies of Calderon? Or the Dresden Files?
Both deal with magic and world building. Just curious.
Another post that makes me wish I could draw.
ReplyDeleteWhen I get an idea its a mix of the character and a situation. And I have to build around that. I'm trying to start more world building in the beginning as part of my character development. It's a hard balance.
I saw a video of that guy doing those drawings - rather amazing.
ReplyDeleteI haven't tackled fantasy although I like to read it. (And prefer D&D style of magic.) Then again, world-building is not my strong suit. Characters come first.
I find magicians annoying for the same reason. I think there should be an even balance between characters, plot, and world-building - they all have to be developed, right? I think that's true in historical fiction too.
ReplyDeleteWhen I started my fantasy, I worked on characters first. World building and the rest came later.
ReplyDeleteI don't think you should ever explain how your magic works. It's like being a magician on stage. It needs to work, but you don't stand up there and explain the trick after you've done it.
ReplyDeleteI think I'm more like Rusty. I start with some concept. With House, it was what if some kids moved into a house that really did have secrets? The first Tib story was the same kind of thing. I wanted a story about a kid having to deal with a fear on his own. Something he has to go through day after day. Once I have a concept, I get my characters and only then build the setting.
[By the way, Dragonlance has been optioned as movies. It has been for a while, but they've just been sitting around for more than a decade. They did do an animated movie, but it was barely decent. Well, my kids liked it, but it was only like 90 minutes long, so there was hardly any story in it.]
I think I get a "What if...?" idea and the characters come next. For instance, "What if a girl finds an tiny spaceship in her closet and leaves with the aliens?" My world building is only created as I go along. I do have some preliminary concepts, but a lot of brainstorming comes in later.
ReplyDeleteI haven't written a fantasy but I would think the world would need to come before the characters. If we don't understand this new world, how can we judge or comprehend the characters' motives and actions?
ReplyDeleteI think the first thing I think of in a story is something cool that happens. A way out of a problem, a difficult situation, something unexpected that gets me interested. The world building stuff comes a lot later for me.
ReplyDeletemood
Moody Writing
@mooderino
The Funnily Enough
That Urville stuff is incredible!
ReplyDeleteI think I come down more on the character side than on the strict world-building side. If an author can world build through the eyes of a character, so much the better--that's why outsider characters have a great appeal to writers and readers.
Novels with complex magic systems or deep complex histories tend to be a rough read. The problem is that many authors work so in depth on these nitty-gritty things that they lose the characters in the minutia of the universe they're creating. Magic systems are great in D&D where you can pore over each and every spell. In a novel, so much is fudged anyway. Best to just keep the action going, I think.
That's why George R.R. Martin is so amazing--he doesn't slow down to explain things in one huge infodump. He leaves little clues and expects you to pick up on those so that by the time Stannis, for example, becomes important, we've already spent hundreds of pages getting slowly fed a whole bunch of relevant info.
I start with a basic premise, and build the world and the characters based on that.
ReplyDeleteI agree about said, though prefer no tags when action can indicate the speaker.
I think some YA authors concentrate too much on the characters and don't leave enough for the world-building, as you mentioned with the romance.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, at first I'm plot-driven, and then I think about the characters that drive this plot, and then I think about what kind of world they live in. How does the world affect the characters? Being in this world, how do the characters decide to carry out the plot?
I especially liked the wyvern bit :P I think I feel the same way about "faeries."
I'd like to world-build first, but I find that I start with a premise and then world-build around that. Magic systems come into play as to how they impact the premise. Usually.
ReplyDeleteThe thing about the "clever writer" is that we all want to be appreciated for the hard work we put into our stories. It's an ego thing. It's hard to do all the work to make something look effortless and then not be appreciated for it. (Just my 2 cents.)
Usually a scene comes to me first with the characters. Then I figure the rest out. Sometimes the world comes first, but rarely.
ReplyDeleteThe world building alone is why I admire people who write Fantasy and Sci-Fi. I guess I don't read anything of both because I assume that all the science and worldbuilding would be beyond me.
ReplyDeleteAs to being clever, I think many of us start out using complex sentences and trying to be unique, because we're told our writing has to be new and different. Over time, I've learnt that clarity and simplicity is best.
Great post and those drawings are awesome. Of course JK Rowling, JRR Tolkein; CS Lewis also created elaborate back stories for their novels and as you say look how they turned out. Great characters and a well thought out plot are so crucial, I agree. I also find weird spellings of names and words extremely off putting, like those who write magik etc.
ReplyDeleteI already know that world-building is my weak point, so I start with character and plot. Those are the two things that tend to carry my story. I'm not writing about magic right now, though I have in the past.
ReplyDeleteNEAT stuff!
ReplyDeleteI tend to start with a character and build the world around them.
Wow, this guys world building is very interesting and I found the link interesting -- but it seems like it is real for him. This interest me because he's autistic and a savant.
ReplyDeleteAnd, you're pretty passionate today about what you like and don't like. Enjoyed your post. Love good fantasy, just wish I could write it! Look forward to your new release.
I'd never thought about complex worldbuilding until I started an online workshop led by a fellow blogger. I tend to begin with character inside a "system". I write the first draft not knowing that system and then worldbuild as I go. Then go back and add necessary elements and then play connect the dots. Yeah, there has to be an easier way. =) Great post and something to think about.
ReplyDeleteWhat detailed pictures.
ReplyDeleteYes, people can go overboard. I prefer dragon over wyvern, fairy over faerie, and magic over magyk.
My one attempt at high fantasy was more about character than place.
One thing I especially like about the Harry Potter books is that Rowling makes the world fun even with everything else going on. A little humor is welcome.
I found it interesting about what you said about 'said'. I have written some short stories and sometimes wonder how often I should use that word!
ReplyDeleteI've not created a fantasy world (yet), but I've recently created a city of my very own. How big is it? As big as it needs to be. I did name a street and plot out where things were on that street, then I considered making a map, but I thought, "nah, that's too dorky!" Now, however, I'm thinking a map is magnificently, wonderfully dorky, and I'm totally mapping out my city now!
ReplyDeleteAmazing artwork! Wow!
ReplyDeleteFor me, the characters and plot come first. Then I slowly add in culture, the world, the magic, etc. It gets more in-depth through each draft, but it definitely doesn't come first for me.
I'm not exactly writing fantasy...
ReplyDeleteThe elements still apply to most forms of writing. For me the character arrives first and the world (all the quirky details that we add into a characters life - city, home, etc) builds itself up around the character.
Whichever comes first, world building or characters, they both need to be integrated seamlessly into each other. (Hugs)Indigo
I'm building a fantasy world, but there isn't a story to go with it. I don't write fantasy, I just wanted to make a world. I'm not sure I'll spend 20 years on it though!
ReplyDeleteI typically come up with a magic system first (if there is going to be one), but the difference is the magic is an accent to the worldbuilding. With the world established, I create characters to populate it (people are shaped by their geography to an extent, so this makes sense to me). I also try to figure out what the problem is before I draft the character bible. :)
ReplyDeleteThat's a long time to work on a single project!
ReplyDeleteWhen I write Fantasy, the first thing I start with is usually the world; characters can migrate from genre to genre and magic systems are usually influenced by the setting.
Forgive me, I'm about to sound like a total elitist... but for me, the world doesn't exist without the characters doesn't exist without the world.
ReplyDeleteThe drawings are amazing. He probably has a lot of things that could be connected with those drawings.
ReplyDeleteIf I were to write Science fiction, I would start with a plot first.
I remember thinking I should do something that made better sense than a world where the author claimed the real God didn't exist, but angels did. They came from dust, and one of them claimed he was God, but now he's old and senile. Angels but no God = logic fail.
ReplyDeleteThen I asked Piers Anthony if he minded if I made a series for teens like his pun-based Xanth books. (He said "yes, just don't call it Xanth.)
I really don't remember if I decided to write a book about Boy Scouts who save the Heartland before or after I made a world to go with it.
Problem was, my scientific bent ruined my whole plan to use magic. I ended up with a sentient planet that stores its power in crystals, very soft SF with a fantasy feel. Well, it's middle-grade.
MMM, i love Ringworld.
ReplyDeleteI rarely write straight up "normal" magic. Not because i have a problem with it, but just because it usually doens't fit into my milieu. If i have a society where the majority of people are illiterate, it puts me in a bind if they can only use magic by reading about spells.
I generally prefer internal magic. Magic that the person is born with. It's genetic. Some form of that is usually what i go with
As a mom of a child on the spectrum, I will tell you they are so gifted. I disagree that they are delayed, only stronger in some areas. They give so much to the world.
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