tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2495499100279472520.post8913002252972630265..comments2024-03-22T12:11:58.453-06:00Comments on Michael Offutt: AllegoryMichael Offutt, Phantom Readerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10557969104886174930noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2495499100279472520.post-13973192199070778932011-05-31T23:23:33.717-06:002011-05-31T23:23:33.717-06:00I'm not sure I buy it. You could just as easil...I'm not sure I buy it. You could just as easily say that every woman in the book has her troubles because of a man or men. Martin's world is hell for just about everyone.<br /><br />I still love Ender's Game, even after I found out what a creep the author is. It made so much sense that all the heroes in his books have to be so perfectly brilliant, since he has such a narrow, right-wing view of how things should be.Ted Crosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09022309459554237650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2495499100279472520.post-22696156010536415932011-05-31T18:18:11.715-06:002011-05-31T18:18:11.715-06:00People can be misogynist without even realizing it...People can be misogynist without even realizing it. Then there are people who are racist, sexist, anti- semitic, homophobic and if there were words to describe people who are against little people, people with emotional probelms - - - the list can go on and on. Good thing that you are able to grasp the content of the book ie if it is reflecting that charecter of the author. <br />My biggest desire is to save the generation of today's kindergarteners from people like that. My biggest fear - - - there will always be some one to pass the messages of fear and hatered to the innocent.MunirGhiasuddinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05232362559666320301noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2495499100279472520.post-43423698400132211752011-05-31T16:34:55.954-06:002011-05-31T16:34:55.954-06:00Brent: I finished "Ender's Game". I ...Brent: I finished "Ender's Game". I will never buy another book by Card.<br /><br />As for George...misogyny doesn't bother me as much as the stuff that Card is guilty of with regard to his stance on gay marriage and gay rights. It simply is interesting...and hell no...it doesn't keep me from plowing through his books, recommending them, and pre-ordering "Dance of Dragons".<br /><br />However, a frank discussion on misogyny might be in order in my recommendation to the books to someone. For example, I might say..."Hey...I've been reading these books and they are frickin' awesome. However, I'm pretty sure the guy that writes them is a misogynist. All the males in the books die because of their interactions with females, the writer is extremely frank about sex including a full description of Daenerys masturbating, and it is very soap-operish...if this appeals to you...it's worth the money." I would end with a smile :)Michael Offutt, Phantom Readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10557969104886174930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2495499100279472520.post-6550516522349116932011-05-31T14:41:47.644-06:002011-05-31T14:41:47.644-06:00My question is if you believe Martin is a misogyni...My question is if you believe Martin is a misogynist, is that going to keep you from reading the books? Did you stop reading Ender because you thought Card was a bigot? (Because I have to add, and I know that this isn't what this post is about, that the end of Ender's Game and the subsequent series shows that they--Ender--made a mistake with the xenocide of an entire race. The story becomes one about understanding the Other.) (Sorry, I'll bet you already had this discussion when you posted your feelings on Card before. Feel free to delete this.)Brent Wescotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08313269993916969201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2495499100279472520.post-19438724732502359302011-05-31T13:57:48.229-06:002011-05-31T13:57:48.229-06:00Interesting.
I think every author has a point of ...Interesting.<br /><br />I think every author has a point of view that comes through in his/her work whether put there consciously or not. It sounds like you consciously look out for that viewpoint. I bet it gives the stuff you read a little more depth than it might have otherwise.Liz A.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16531953467834426316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2495499100279472520.post-28072800523760540392011-05-31T13:14:49.351-06:002011-05-31T13:14:49.351-06:00Also, the world has changed a lot since Tolkien...Also, the world has changed a lot since Tolkien's day (not to mention that he's dead so has no stake at all in sales because he's dead). <br /><br />Now...everything is instant. Sales can be impacted instantly. If a writer were to truly speak his mind and say what he really feels...and it's unpopular...bam twitter...bam facebook...bam career. **KAPOW** unemployment line.<br /><br />I think we live in a time when more than ever, we cannot say what we truly want to say because if we do...it costs us money. That's capitalism.Michael Offutt, Phantom Readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10557969104886174930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2495499100279472520.post-37451918918101717032011-05-31T12:52:21.278-06:002011-05-31T12:52:21.278-06:00Well, yeah, that's true. Sort of. I mean, Tolk...Well, yeah, that's true. Sort of. I mean, Tolkien would have agreed with the messages in his book; he just disagreed that he put them there. So it would really depend on the message as to whether the author would own up to it. That is to say, Tolkien's messages were unpopular in his day. Technology, all technology, and industrial progress, was seen as a good thing. But he didn't like it and said so frequently. Then he wrote a big series of books that, basically, said humans are orcs (or hobbits). I don't think Tolkien was overly concerned with sales, though.<br />I'm gonna stop, now. I feel like I do when I'm arguing with my wife over something we're in agreement on.<br />hehAndrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2495499100279472520.post-63694932589547863242011-05-31T12:28:37.031-06:002011-05-31T12:28:37.031-06:00Andrew: It is ridiculous to assume that any author...Andrew: It is ridiculous to assume that any author would ever "own" up to an idea that could be construed "unpopular" because money is on the line. As long as sales could be impacted, any author will hide from admitting that there is intent behind the words that are put to a manuscript...period.Michael Offutt, Phantom Readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10557969104886174930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2495499100279472520.post-14829606873988218692011-05-31T11:42:28.398-06:002011-05-31T11:42:28.398-06:00Yeah, I have to agree with Rogue. Messages in book...Yeah, I have to agree with Rogue. Messages in books are not always intended by the author. Which is not to say that they're not there, but...<br />Let's look at Tolkien and Lewis, because, well, who else is there better to look at? The allegory in the Narnia books was intentional by Lewis. He set out to write allegory. Tolkien, on the other hand, hated allegory and continually objected to there being allegorical messages in his books. The messages were still there (technology is bad, war is bad, all of that), but he didn't put them there with forethought.<br /><br />I would imagine that Mr. Martin would disagree with your assessment of his message. Of course, I don't know him, so maybe not. Of course, people often have beliefs about things that they're not even aware of.<br /><br />Still not reading those books. Just saying.Andrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2495499100279472520.post-89739802320878995712011-05-31T08:46:49.546-06:002011-05-31T08:46:49.546-06:00I thought it was about nipples.
What you have to ...I thought it was about nipples.<br /><br />What you have to be careful of is that sometimes the message you perceive from a book is not consciously intended by the author. Maybe Card intended to be anti-gay with his books or maybe it was just subconscious.<br /><br />I wrote a whole post on that a while back that was inspired by a "South Park" episode.PT Dillowayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09394481476862013009noreply@blogger.com