tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2495499100279472520.post6099699944563945926..comments2024-03-22T12:11:58.453-06:00Comments on Michael Offutt: The Bar For Publishing... O.oMichael Offutt, Phantom Readerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10557969104886174930noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2495499100279472520.post-46296809234535506872012-01-14T23:52:34.292-07:002012-01-14T23:52:34.292-07:00javascript:void(0)After the awesome review you gav...javascript:void(0)After the awesome review you gave my book, seeing how picky you actually are made me feel really good. Just sayin'.<br /><br />*Magically beams idea of sending Maria ARC of your novel into your brain*Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2495499100279472520.post-49753048001777041222012-01-14T23:52:02.363-07:002012-01-14T23:52:02.363-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Maria Violantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14815519440711928180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2495499100279472520.post-65227927575212933602011-08-19T14:51:10.704-06:002011-08-19T14:51:10.704-06:00This is exactly what I've been saying for a lo...This is exactly what I've been saying for a long time--readers don't care how beautifully written your prose is. They don't. They want a good story. Stephanie Meyers did that. Hunger Games did that. <br /><br />I completely agree with you. There are fabulous writers out there that are not getting picked up. It's all about where to put the money and which concept will bring in even more. It's not about the writing--though I do enjoy a well put together, well constructed story. <br /><br />As long as you don't use a lot of adverbs and can tell a kick-ass story, I'll read it. Most readers don't seem to care about the details. But this is YA we're talking here. It may be tougher to get away with things in other genres. It may not be as forgiving. <br /><br />Thank goodness I write YA (I jest here). <br /><br />Wonderful post ;)Angela Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12488555961691093024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2495499100279472520.post-83672316359557050562011-06-16T21:04:09.285-06:002011-06-16T21:04:09.285-06:00OUCH!
Sounds like you were on the receiving end o...OUCH!<br /><br />Sounds like you were on the receiving end of some bad writing news lately? :-( I agree with you that I had some quibbles with Hunger Games. THE FRAGMENTS, oh lord, the fragments.<br /><br />I felt similarly enraged whenever the people running workshops heard about my first novel project and gave me squinty something-smells-bad faces. <br /><br />I said, "Well if the market only likes crap, then crap I shall writer!"<br /><br />But I didn't write crap. I wrote something else I could get passionate about, from the pool of ideas that seemed slightly more marketable.<br /><br />Oh hell, it's probably crap for the rejection bin too. But nobody can say I didn't try!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2495499100279472520.post-66132822880886251262011-06-14T07:55:45.174-06:002011-06-14T07:55:45.174-06:00Well of course one shouldn't use exclamation p...Well of course one shouldn't use exclamation points. Period. I think I used one in my book once. I felt dirty after, which is not to say I don't enjoy abusing them on the Internet. Anyway, keep ruffling those feathers. I'm tired of reading the same things everywhere, I need variety of opinions people! And you somewhat manage, Michael.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17979704972319783846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2495499100279472520.post-25154619924994042522011-06-10T12:01:15.117-06:002011-06-10T12:01:15.117-06:00Since you asked, the author is Jennifer Eagan. The...Since you asked, the author is Jennifer Eagan. The book won the Pulitzer prize but so far it's almost unreadable. I'm only 5 chapters in though, so hopefully it gets better.Alyson Burdettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16916059117572619004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2495499100279472520.post-50756989110336231992011-06-10T09:54:11.374-06:002011-06-10T09:54:11.374-06:00I've seen them, they weren't all that. Nic...I've seen them, they weren't all that. Nice frocks though.mooderinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01523337588830695638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2495499100279472520.post-45212789903237661412011-06-10T09:50:19.380-06:002011-06-10T09:50:19.380-06:00Brent: I have to admit...I have not read any Dan B...Brent: I have to admit...I have not read any Dan Brown. I was told to by my friend Tony who said "Davinci Code" is amazing and "Angels and Demons" even better. A little trivia on Dan Brown... for some reason or other I googled the Vatican Archives and there was a whole section written by the people who work there on how Dan Brown has never even seen them. I thought that was funny considering that they are a prominent feature in the second film. They are also annoyed that there are so many requests to see them from tourists when in fact, they are pretty much closed off from the public. <br /><br />Alyson: I'm interested in knowing who said author is now simply because I'm curious.<br /><br />Danette: I agree. Kurt Colfer of Glee is now a YA author signed to multiple book contracts. Easy as pie. All he had to do was sing on a hit t.v. show.<br /><br />Munk: Your randomness is so random.<br /><br />Eagle: Thank you for stopping by :)Michael Offutt, Phantom Readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10557969104886174930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2495499100279472520.post-86941619348460047822011-06-10T08:58:35.462-06:002011-06-10T08:58:35.462-06:00I liked The Hunger Games, but I can overlook a lot...I liked The Hunger Games, but I can overlook a lot of writing flaws pretty easily if I like the storyline or characters. I get what you are saying about the publishing industry, though. I'm reading a major award winning book right now (which I wont bother to name) that's written so badly I can hardly stand to finish it. It's all 'subjective' which really means who ever has a stroke of luck seems to get published.Alyson Burdettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16916059117572619004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2495499100279472520.post-65375797040853161432011-06-10T00:04:40.333-06:002011-06-10T00:04:40.333-06:00Readers miss the obvious stuff in a book like this...Readers miss the obvious stuff in a book like this because they're not paying much attention. The writing is pretty simple and it's easy to read. I'd wager that if you asked anyone who read the Hunger Games, they'd tell you they read it in a short short amount of time. And they would probably tell you the reason is that they loved is so much. When, really, it was just easy to read. Dan Brown does the same thing. His novels are extremely easy to read and people lap them up. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Sometimes you want an easy to read book.<br /><br />And you're not missing anything by not reading the others. The last one, in particular, gets really bad by the end. I honestly think Collins herself got bored with it and just ran out the clock.Brent Wescotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08313269993916969201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2495499100279472520.post-39519277312456114062011-06-09T21:32:51.150-06:002011-06-09T21:32:51.150-06:00All it takes to get published is a name. And that ...All it takes to get published is a name. And that means you are going to sell books without anybody spending a penny advertising it. And a book like this is is a best seller before it even hits the shelf. Sorry but that is the way it is. And that is why she doesn't have to write anything that is worth anything. Same with almost any other best selling author- and I am just as offended by all of them. David Baldacci, John Grisham, and Patricia Cornwell... you name 'em. All crap. But they sell because of The Name no matter that they are practically rewriting the same story over and over again.Danettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15043881305977386629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2495499100279472520.post-39778998847225148212011-06-09T18:03:48.705-06:002011-06-09T18:03:48.705-06:00Like Meg Cabot and Stephenie Myer, Ms Collins isn&...Like Meg Cabot and Stephenie Myer, Ms Collins isn't famous and best selling for her writing prose but the storyline. Or so I've been told. I haven't read the Hunger Games trilogy (not really my genre, I don't want to read a depressing book).Steph Schmidthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00975939582442193113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2495499100279472520.post-44601762212555142552011-06-09T17:19:03.933-06:002011-06-09T17:19:03.933-06:00I have to say I didn't really like The Hunger ...I have to say I didn't really like The Hunger Games much, either. I liked the concept, but I didn't like Katniss or the general direction of the plot.<br /><br />A lot of YA books make me wonder what sets the bar for publishing. I've run into many books that could stand some work, either on the plot, characters, or writing.Golden Eaglehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08721520451194318436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2495499100279472520.post-73255387451977737182011-06-09T14:16:15.310-06:002011-06-09T14:16:15.310-06:00Michael, thanks for providing me a welcome dose of...Michael, thanks for providing me a welcome dose of catharsis. Great post and commentary to all.<br /> <br />...and the beat goes on... Sonny Bono.Munkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04921320770712443773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2495499100279472520.post-78020843393823177452011-06-09T13:51:23.256-06:002011-06-09T13:51:23.256-06:00You know, I'm glad to see someone actually say...You know, I'm glad to see someone actually saying something about Hunger Games that's not "oh, it's so amazing! the characters are just the bestest! the love triangle is just awesome!" I'm getting sooo tired of seeing that EVERYWHERE! (notice all of my exclamation points?) I have absolutely no interest in reading this book. At all. I don't care if the characters are good, the premise is ridiculous.<br /><br />Here's the problem with books and readers as I have observed it. This comes from many years of dealing with teenagers but extends just as readily to adults. In general, people do not read. At best (if I'm remembering correctly), your average person -might- read 1 book per year. Due to this, your average reader is not very discriminating. Poor to mediocre writing is good or amazing to them because they have no experience with anything better. And this is where there begins to be an issue... actual good writing, complex writing, the kind of writing that people who read challenging books like, is too difficult for your average person. You know, 4th grade reading level and all of that. That, more than anything else, may be the thing that contributes to the success of books like Twilight and The Hunger Games. The writing is just poor enough to appeal to the masses.Andrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2495499100279472520.post-17001944428072483732011-06-09T13:41:01.634-06:002011-06-09T13:41:01.634-06:00One of the "rules" I've heard bandie...One of the "rules" I've heard bandied about is how you shouldn't use dialog tags beyond "said." Then today I read on a blog that an editor sent this author's book back because he used "says" all the time! So basically whoever said not to use said was full of shit--at least for that publisher. And that's the problem; it's so fucking subjective!<br /><br />Briane's comment makes a lot of sense. I mean you see this form of imitation all the time. "American Idol" hits it big and then every network has to have a talent show. A couple of superhero movies hit big so let's adapt every comic book we can lay our hands on! And add to it, Scholastic knew by 2005 that Harry Potter was going to end soon, which meant they needed to find a new gravy train.PT Dillowayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09394481476862013009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2495499100279472520.post-77314187198067309792011-06-09T10:52:31.279-06:002011-06-09T10:52:31.279-06:00I commented on Rachelle Gardner's huge agent b...I commented on Rachelle Gardner's huge agent blog today because her post ranted against the use of the exclamation point. In a nutshell, she said that overuse of said punctuation makes you come across as an amateur. <br /><br />I commented saying that Suzanne Collins uses buckets of exclamation points and has made millions of dollars. Someone commented..."well congratulations to Suzanne Collins and her success but she is not my mentor." It gave me many lulz because the commenter sounded so "huffy" in a "How dare you point out something that goes against the rules of publishing? How dare you suggest that there are indeed no rules to publishing and that the only way anyone gets published has nothing, in fact, to do with writing."<br /><br />You know...a lot of people depend on telling other people how to write in order to come up with a daily blog post.<br /><br />http://cba-ramblings.blogspot.com/2011/06/that-pesky-exclamation-point.htmlMichael Offutt, Phantom Readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10557969104886174930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2495499100279472520.post-44496751846006183342011-06-09T10:42:26.622-06:002011-06-09T10:42:26.622-06:00This was really excellent -- as are most posts her...This was really excellent -- as are most posts here. <br /><br />"Hunger Games" got big because "Twilight" got big, and publishers were looking for the next big thing, so they pushed "Hunger Games" and cast what's-her-name in the movie and got articles in EW every week and that all drives sales; advertising creates sales, and as I've said before, book publishers (and most writers) aren't interested in selling to READERS, they're interested in selling to BUYERS. <br /><br />Once you buy a book, you can't UNBUY it. So if a book is good enough to get published and sells, say, 10,000,000 copies, that book will generate another book, regardless -- but how do the sales do after that, is the real question. <br /><br />With "Hunger Games," they'll lump all the books together -- one site says "nearly 4,000,000" Hunger games books were sold. But there are three books in that series, and the sales figures are<br /><br />Book 1: Paperback, 1,000,000, e-book 128,000, hardcover 471,000.<br /><br />Book 2: No paperback listing, e-book, 98,000, Hardcover, 918,000, <br /><br />Book 3: no paperback listing, e-book 124,000, hardcover, 1.4 million,<br /><br />The site I got those off of listed paperback sales only for 100,000 plus sales, so we can assume Hunger games sold less than 100,000 paperback copies.<br /><br />Now here's the thing: Wikipedia cites entirely different sales figures, claiming that Collins is the first YA author to sell a million ebooks, so these figures are squishy. <br /><br />But Collins wrote "Hunger Games" sometime prior to 2006 and then signed with Scholastic for a six-book deal. Collins, although it's not frequently mentioned, had worked for Scholastic Entertainment as a writer on a TV show and was doing a not-as-well received series when she wrote "The Hunger Games."<br /><br />But "Twilight" was published in 2005, and publishers were desperate for a similar hit -- and Advertising Age noted that almost immediately, marketing of tie-ins for the planned trilogy began.<br /><br />In other words, Scholastic said "We need a Twilight," found an in-house author and had her write one, then pumped tons of money into the books to advertise them. Teens being less discriminating in their reading, the books were marketed as YA books to avoid critical drubbing of the sort that Stephen King gave Stephanie Meyers (and, to a lesser extent, The Hunger Games itself).<br /><br />But those sales figures -- most of the hardcover were backlist sales -- suggest that the readership relies not on the books being good, but on advertising. The book sold tepidly at first, until a big push in advertising began and then sales dropped off on the second novel, only to pick back up for the third book -- about the time the movie casting is announced. Who ever heard of readers reading the 1st and 3rd books in a trilogy? It's kids who are picking up the book because they heard of the movie, or parents buying Book 3 because it's hot right now.<br /><br />Which is to say: Publishers sell books, not reading -- and you're right that you won't get rich or famous just by being a good writer.Brianehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01616494058636881575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2495499100279472520.post-29353085250332901852011-06-09T10:31:38.384-06:002011-06-09T10:31:38.384-06:00Tapping into the teenage girl market is a differen...Tapping into the teenage girl market is a different thing. They think differently, emphasize life differently. Miniscule things are trumped up as very important. Stephanie Meyer did a great job of tapping into that. I'm not her audience, so never finished it. But I could recognize why it would appeal to teenage girls. I have Thrones in my TBR pile and never read Hunger Games, so can't comment on them.<br /><br />Either way, I do know Twilight tapped into its target audience with genius. As writers, that's what we have to figure out what to do. Who is our audience? What makes them tick? Write to them without apology.M Paxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14096697282530998519noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2495499100279472520.post-67635093111539504252011-06-09T09:39:33.798-06:002011-06-09T09:39:33.798-06:00Moody: Excellent point regarding YA.
T.D.: Your p...Moody: Excellent point regarding YA.<br /><br />T.D.: Your posts are always spot on sir.<br /><br />Ted Cross: I agree...I'm not saying that Hunger Games didn't deserve to be published or that it isn't "average" as far as books go. I am saying that I'm tired of people putting this book on a pedestal as if it were some incredible icon meant to somehow inspire you (as an unpublished author) to writing greatness when truthfully, many of the unpublished or indie authors that I've read right now, write better than her. Roguemutt (frequent poster) is a better author than Suzanne Collins.<br /><br />CBame: My criticism of Ms. Collins work only came from one chapter. Trust me, I could make a blog post a mile long because there is something amiss in every single chapter of her book that drives me nuts.<br /><br />Madeline: I read quite a bit because it's funner than writing. Once I squeeze out a thousand words I stop and pick up a book. I don't care how long it takes me to write a novel. I have a job and a mediocre life which is more than I can say for a lot of people stuck in this recession. Furthermore, it's not like going fast on anything will get me traditionally published. I don't think it has ever been about the writing.Michael Offutt, Phantom Readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10557969104886174930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2495499100279472520.post-79937870524641616342011-06-09T09:28:51.453-06:002011-06-09T09:28:51.453-06:00I was thinking the exact same thing about publishi...I was thinking the exact same thing about publishing this morning. I don't read often (gasp!) and it's because every book I read is unbelievably awful! I don't know much about writing, but I could rant about everything wrong in a book for hours and hours, and that's only on the first two chapters I read. I can't find books I like, and I hate wasting my time reading crap when I can be writing. It's certainly frustrating. I think I'm going to hire somebody to read books before I do so I know they're good. I'm just relieved that I'm not the only one who is thinking this. ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2495499100279472520.post-26440140466304995672011-06-09T08:31:14.111-06:002011-06-09T08:31:14.111-06:00I think it'd take me longer than 3 weeks to di...I think it'd take me longer than 3 weeks to die without food. How long can fat keep you alive? Of course if they're really so hungry, are people eating each other? Maybe that's part of the Games.<br /><br />Anyway, I always find it funny these people who praise "God" for everything great that happens but when something terrible happens it's the "Devil" who did it or it's all part of some secret plan. If giving 10-year-olds cancer is part of the plan, maybe consider a new deity.PT Dillowayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09394481476862013009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2495499100279472520.post-66561960940683303702011-06-09T08:30:36.893-06:002011-06-09T08:30:36.893-06:00Matthew: But what if you're Bear Grylls? The d...Matthew: But what if you're Bear Grylls? The dude drank his own urine and gave himself a bat guano enema... <br />(I'm just being a smart ass).Michael Offutt, Phantom Readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10557969104886174930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2495499100279472520.post-62475663725666746742011-06-09T08:30:20.475-06:002011-06-09T08:30:20.475-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.PT Dillowayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09394481476862013009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2495499100279472520.post-17213316820099458332011-06-09T07:46:00.495-06:002011-06-09T07:46:00.495-06:00Remember: 3 minutes without air, 3 days without wa...Remember: 3 minutes without air, 3 days without water, 3 weeks without food.Matthew MacNishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03264738483763244969noreply@blogger.com